[heretica]

[quote:18mhtmei][i:18mhtmei]Originally posted by Guts[/i:18mhtmei]

But i now realize, it’s NOT something that is Common sense, and people need to be aware of this issue, that the purpose of drills truly must be seriously thought out. Not only that, but i also now see more clearly the need of a great progression, and to clean up and cut away on what may be perceived as extra junk on an already tried and tested drill.

Reason i point this out is if someone does a drill, even if they know it’s supposed to teach specific skills and is not the entire picture of a fight……they will for some reason instinctively TRY to make the fight look like the drill, even if they know it isn’t.

[/quote:18mhtmei]

I agree. There is a huge allure in drills, a whole culture even – the rationale, the strategy, the neatness. Attacker does this, we do that. We practise and practise and imagine the fight will look like the drill and everything will unfold like a drill.

Well that would be nice. What a gift.
But violent encounters not pre formatted.

Even worse if the drills were not very realistic in the first place. Like that self defense knife attack thing.

I like that idea of cleaning up and cutting away the extra junk. Applies to a lot of kata bunkai as well.

The er meat puppet thing is a little disconcerting. Nice imagery.:o Noticed it before but I haven’t liked to ask :halo:…this is the attacker ? quickly becoming the victim?

Also – in my style we are specifically required to incorporate a snapping, whipping action to our strikes at speed as opposed to striking through the target. I guess there is a bouncing off effect. How does the circular strike work and why is it more effective?

[heretica]

I’m Sue!

Thanks for that, very encouraging.

Better sometimes to look back at how far I’ve come and be pleased, than always look at how far I have to go and be daunted, if that makes any sense!

I can see that controlled progression is really important with these programmes so I’m not rushing. I’ll move forward when it feels right.

[heretica]

Thanks for the clip. I understand this idea and I don’t think the drill is extreme. It has a practical purpose other than just developing character, though it’ll probably do that as well. A good challenge, I look forward to it

Yet again there is something for me to get my head around. If CST doesn’t appear extreme when you’re used to it then the obvious thing for me is to just bloody do it.

Small steps.

[heretica]

So its perspective. Clearly I haven’t done enough crazy stuff. Yet.
Or moved very far along the strength training continuum.

Not bagging Sonnon’s stuff in general. Far from it. Don’t know much about the other programmes yet but I’m happily Intu-flowing my way through the dvd, can see the value, I know its good for me, and I’m really enjoying it.

Super simplistically the outcome seems to be that I still think the stuff is extreme but you guys say that’s ok because it took ages to achieve, it was fun/challenge getting there and there are major added benefits.

Now I’m interested in this ignore pain drill – can you elaborate?

[heretica]

Okay, first – “As for pure martial arts training, well I can’t do that yet so I don’t know. ” – Hahaha

Rick you’ve made points its really hard for me to dispute.

I agree our minds create our limits.

I agree that pushing past our current limits is what it is all about.

I will even agree that rolling around on the floor could be fun. :halo:

But – its possible to go too far with extremes of training and extremism of any sort I generally hold to be bad – eg a hapkido guy I know has permanently injured his shoulder landing from a dive over just one more person than before onto a concrete floor to prove he could. May never train again.

And there is a lot of showmanship and ego-driven gungho macho stupidity associated with some martial arts – I’m thinking extreme breaking, pain threshold testing etc the sort of thing that puts many people off ever setting foot in a dojo.

You are saying that what sets Scott Sonnon’s display of physical ability apart from a martial arts carnival act is its intention and integrity of purpose, and the fact that it is a point in a careful progression of training and I’ll concede that point gladly. I’ll also happy with Marcus’s point that its about exploration of personal possibilities and expression.

But you know how you say that too often the training becomes The Way – I think its important that feats of physical strength don’t become The Way either.

If its that much fun I can hardly not try it now can I?

[heretica]

Response to Marcus:

You don’t see it as extreme?
Hell one of the reasons you love it is because its extreme! :bad::lol:

Actually this I do understand. I love karate because its extreme (no comments about the kind of karate I do, too easy) therefore challenging and exciting. Who wants easy/normal?

And I bet another reason you love it because youre good at it.

But this particular upper body stuff is really hard for women, could be wrong but I would say not really developed with us in mind.

Point taken its a tool to use as needed or enjoyed and I understand different strokes, different abilities.

” the point IMHO is wellness , mobility , muscle control , fitness and health (read happiness)” I completely agree with this. Balance.

But the pursuit of `extreme’ physical challenges at the expense of other types of development, other parts of the whole? (Not saying this applies to you, I know it absolutely doesn’t).

An aspect of the journey but not the destination?

Response to Rick:

1. Bloody hell I’m going to have to try harder.
2. 1956 was a particularly good year
3. Further discussion to follow

[heretica]

I’d better live up to my name.

Is this really what its about?

Is this what we should seek to emulate?

I like Scott’s programmes and I admire his physicality – flexibility and strength – very nice – like an Olympic gymnast. (What happens to them when they get older by the way?)

And I do strive to be strong and flexible. I’ll even work hard on it. But this young male extreme ego upper body stuff is too clever for me. Maybe its a guy thing.

Frankly, whats the point?

Wheres the fun?

[heretica]

:halo:

be very afraid!

[heretica]

Of course we never have any of those Chris…

[heretica]

Cabinetmaker humor?! … ?

Q. How many cabinetmakers does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. Three
One to fuck it up, one to refit it, and one to blame the designer…:bounce:

I am in sooo much trouble

[heretica]

Got my Intu-flow Starter package three days ago. Its a big investment by the time you factor in the freight to NZ.

Very impressed. Love it.

Thanks!

[heretica]

In my style we are taught techniques and we drill them over and over to approach “perfection”. For years.

The underlying principles are not always obvious, (or even understood) and the unspoken idea is that we don’t necessarily need to understand – someone wiser and more experienced has figured out what we need to do and why, so just shout hai and do it, when you need to use the technique, it will be there.

I have practised and practised this stuff. I am now quite good at some techniques I will never use in practical reality – such as haito. Would probably never bother with this strike in a self defence situation.

And I am also quite good at some techniques which out of sheer habit I probably would use in practical reality, but which would not necessarily be very effective – chudan-tsuki for example. It’s a big worry – would my habitual response serve me well when I needed it?

Even worse – would my drilled response actually be strong enough to be effective or would I pull it out of habit ?

Because we learn technique, it is utterly the goal. We think we are learning the underlying principles but its taught arse about kite – technique then some kind of justification. Sometimes it works and is right, but there has also been what I now realise to be very shaky theory at times.

Um let me see – I know every detail of the icing on the cake but I don’t know what the occasion is!!?

Knowledge of principles is paramount.

I am sure that principle must lead response. The principle must be the starting point, and techniques are outcomes, adapted to suit.

I think this is the difference in approach that I originally identified and liked so much in posts on this forum.

So tell me about the principles, I know there are many, but start me off with some important ones!!

Actually thinking of changing my forum name to flailing moron, has a nice ring to it – but I’m a thinking one, ok? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/" alt="” title=”Tongue” />

[heretica]

Purely for educational purposes of course

[heretica]

As the Black Knight said – its only a flesh wound…

Rick – i look forward to graphic pictures of the spider monkey 😮

[heretica]

[quote:1s0htbg4][i:1s0htbg4]Originally posted by Stryke[/i:1s0htbg4]
Eat , sleep , train , rest , repeat ……

add wine women and song if you can handle it

life solved …….. [/quote:1s0htbg4]

Marcus you forgot laugh

Needs gender adjustment from my point of view, but otherwise hard to argue with

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